Here's his article for yesterday. It refers to the recent scandal where the Minister of State for Science was going to launch an anti-evolution book; the minister ultimately withdrew, presumably after he realised just how much it would make him look like an idiot. Kev's article on the subject is, well, to put it mildly, interesting. It's titled Evolutionism is just another belief system -- but one that depends on a great deal of science. It first attempts to define 'evolutionism' (a word typically used by creationists and others to denote a person who accepts the theory of evolution through natural selection) as a religion:
Evolutionism is proof of the power of evolution, for it has itself evolved into a religion, with Richard Dawkins its St Paul and St Peter, its proselytiser and pope.
This strikes me as very peculiar; how, precisely? And why Dawkins of all people?
Like any worthwhile religion, it treats non-believers as backward and uneducated.
Well, Mr Myers, not to put it too finely, that is because they are.
Now, that stuff alone is pretty silly; are people who accept, say, Newtonian gravitation as a reasonable model for everyday circumstances gravitationists, who worship at the alter of Stephen Hawking? Are people who accept that 1 + 1 = 2 depraved mathsists, who go down to the university every Sunday for readings from the sacred Principia Mathematica? The whole basis of religious faith is that it it faith; something accepted without evidence. Oh, but it doesn't stop there.
Theories of evolution when tested on the origin of protein molecules, not to speak of DNA, usually imitate Mr Gladstone when replying to Queen Victoria's question: "Yes, prime minister, but what is it exactly that lesbians do in bed?"
Evolution cannot explain the most basic question about how a simple protein like insulin could have first been formed. "Simple" is a relative term: insulin is composed of 51 amino acids and has a molecular weight of 5808. Water is just 18. You can boil the primeval molecular broth for an awful long time and put it under enormous pressures, but you will not spontaneously create an insulin molecule
Now, what he's really asking, even if he doesn't know it, and apparently he doesn't, is how did life originate? The origin of life is called abiogenesis, and while there are many theories, some quite advanced and with evidence behind them, there is no standard model, as there is for, say, evolution.
Now, nobody suggests, nobody, that the insulin molecule popped into existence by chance in the 'primordial soup'. Most theories of abiogenesis involve the chance creation of a self-replicating, data-carrying molecule, and go from there. It's quite detailed, and you can read about it here and elsewhere, but it's by no means some fanciful idea, and there is a lot of science behind it.
The very idea that insulin turned up randomly in a primordial soup is very odd. Even modern 'primitive' organisms such as bacteria do not have or produce insulin; the e coli that produces insulin for medical purposes was made by inserting human DNA for making insulin into the bacterium. And no doubt it evolved like any other substance that an organism produces; through selection of DNA mutations, and in fact the evolution of insulin production genes has been much-studied. Myers appears to believe that it must first have shown up spontaneously through non-biological action, which is simply bizarre.
I can't help suspecting, actually, that Myers has been mislead by the claims of creationists; a popular creationist talking point is that "something couldn't happen purely by chance which no scientist claimed happened by chance". His case seems to be that insulin couldn't have evolved, because it is highly improbable that it would have shown up all on its own, by random chance. Which is all very nice, but nobody suggested it did that. While some chance is required in the very early stages of abiogenesis, the mechanisms to make insulin evolved, normally, and evolution through natural selection is not chance; while it relies on random mutations, it tends to select against those which are harmful, or even, generally, neutral. The strangest thing here is that it's asking entirely the wrong question; even assuming the whole thing was chance, the chance of insulin showing up all on its own surely has nothing to do with organisms gaining the ability to manufacture it. Perhaps he thinks it's a necessary prerequisite to life or something?
Saying that such immensely complex, artfully constructed creations were the result of accidents is like putting 140 pounds of mince into a huge mixer, churning them around for a million years and expecting Einstein to result.
Okay, Kev, but who said that? No-one on the science side, certainly. It's a popular creationist strawman, essentially a rehash of "a cat can't change into a tree by chance" but concerning biochemistry to make it less obviously stupid at first glance.
Evolutionism is now basically just another belief system, but one that depends on a great deal of science; and where science doesn't supply the answers, it launches itself into a mass of abstractions and elaborate essays in Yetology, as in: "Science has not YET explained the emergence of the first peptides, however . . ."
And I'm not sure that anyone has said that, either. Here is an article on the alleged irreducible complexity of these things. The bit about the first peptides is, again, strawman weirdness; how on earth are we to know what the first peptides were? And really, does a scientist saying "we don't know, yet" make something a religion? When a mathematician says "we don't know, yet" if all prime numbers are whatever, does that make maths a religion? Now, if someone were to demonstrate that it were impossible or very unlikely for abiogenesis to lead, eventually, to insulin, that would be a big blow for evolution, certainly, but Myers ridiculous strawman simply doesn't qualify.
Moreover, the best way to attract incredulous guffaws amongst "intelligent" westerners is to declare that the concept of intelligent design has some merit.
That's because intelligent design is a cynical ploy to disguise creationism as science to fool the gullible.
THE real paradox in the western world is that evolutionism now co-exists with theism. Most Darwinians believe in a god and most religious people accept Darwin.
Hardly a paradox. We have, remember, observed evolution in action. Religious people may have different views on how their god comes into it, if at all; for instance some may claim that their god set up the prerequisite state of a universe suitable to life (which is a problem in physics and cosmology; there are alternative scientific theories) or that it created the first terribly primitive life (thus ignoring the question of abiogenesis). Myers seems to have come to believe (incorrectly) that evolution through natural selection is in itself supposed to explain where life comes from; in fact it explains how life evolves, with the origins of life and a universe suitable to it being delegated elsewhere.
We certainly don't accept an allegedly all-encompassing theory about the origins of species that cannot even begin to explain how the bricks and mortar of life came into being.
Again, Kevin, who the hell is doing this alleging? No-one on the science side, again; the origins of life are a separate issue. And evolutionary scientists have explained and continue to explain how many of the 'bricks and mortar of life' came into being; are we to refuse to accept it until it has covered every damn protein and sugar and other biochemical in existence?
What this article really does, though, is show that he has no idea what he's talking about. It's not just that spontaneous generation of insulin is silly, it's that even if it were totally practical, it would still be no use to anyone; organisms which need insulin need the machinery to produce it, not have it arise from a primordial soup in the vicinity. It is the wrong question.
If I were the person who'd produced this rubbish, I'd be embarrassed. He should really, perhaps, have had a quick read before he started, perhaps even perusing some of the tomes of the Dread Lord Dawkins; there is no shortage of coverage suitable for the layman.
For much more on the topic, see this handy index of silly creationist claims.
Great post Rob.
ReplyDeleteFantastic post, one can only hope King Kevin will read it. Poor Kevin is so habituated to the role of ‘BolloxSpouterGeneral’ he cannot help himself from trotting out shite about any topic in the world, for as we all should know at this stage Kevin is our intellectual superior, on every topic. Whether it be liberals, feminists, welfare recipients, humanists, questioners, children or agitators, (and of course those shifty ‘scientists’) Kevin is up for a fight, he truly does embody the ‘fighting Irish’ spirit. I could suggest that a new euphemism be added to the Irish lexicon, we could refer to all post-disco outside chipper fights as ‘A Kevin Myers incident’.
ReplyDeleteExcellent post. Well thought out and well written. My own view is the Myers just picks a subject and decides on whatever view will annoy the most number of people. To put it succinctly, I think he is a controversialist and does it for the sake of it.
ReplyDeleteEinstein must have weighed more than 140lbs.then again it must have been all his energy :)
ReplyDeleteTerrific post. I didn't realise the depths of Kevin Myer's stupidity - the old 747 canard and everything. The man is a complete dunderhead.
ReplyDeleteThanks Rob
ReplyDeleteReally nice post dude.
ReplyDeleteMay Stephen Hawking bless your day ;)
Rob, you are a legend.
ReplyDeleteGreat post, dude!
ReplyDeleteFantastic post.. Once again Myres is talking out of his arse.
ReplyDeleteGood post. I would, though, draw attention to:
ReplyDelete"evolution through natural selection is not chance; while it relies on random mutations, it tends to select against those which are harmful, or even, generally, neutral."
Lest it be misconstrued, it is the negative impact on survival caused by disadvantageous mutations (or indeed the absence of advantageous mutations) which is the selector.
Also s/alter/altar :)
Silly man with his stupidity. Great post.
ReplyDeleteOn a related note, I saw a Dawkins book in a bookstore the other day. Filed in the Fiction section. Most likely because the bookstore didn't have enough space on the non-fiction shelf, or, more likely, no general non-fiction shelf.
Hi I think you missed the main focus of Myres Article. As a Scientist and a atheist I am a believer in evolution.
ReplyDeleteThe point is that Evolution is a theory not a theorom. This is an very important distinction in science. Theorom is something that can be proved 100% mainly this is done in Maths and proving anything 100% is difficult. While evolution provides a framework to explain the vast majority of life, it provides testable hypothesis that do conform to reality. However it is still not a proof. The probability of humans ever being able to define a theorm of evolution is probably impossible due to the vast amount of variables.
So therefore to say that evolution is correct is itself a belief. A belief based on lots of evidence but a belief non the less. Scientists should always be ready to accept that theorys can be wrong history has shown that this is not the case. The dogmatic reaction to youngs slits for instance demonstrates. The science theorys can be wrong, but when evidence is demonstrated to dispel the theory. Science react as if it is an attack on religon.
Now nothing of significants has been shown to disprove evolution. But if something did, the passion against it would I believe reach religious ferver. This might be due to a build up of fever due to attacks from creationists but it exits
That I think is Myres point
@simon has some interesting points, here's my take on some of them.
ReplyDeleteTheories are based on facts, but even facts are contingent. Certain known facts can be a problem for the theories of the day. The orbit of Mercury for Newton's theory of gravity was resolved by general relativity, wherein importantly Newton's theory survives as a special case. Gravity and evolution themselves are (contingent) facts, and the (evolving!) theories are the best description we have to date.
Even theorems are based on axioms, and even postulates, and sometimes even conjectures. What if Euclids fifth postulate were false?.. trying to show that lead to hyperbolic geometry.
That's the beauty of maths and science, always questioning. If maths and science knew everything, they'd stop ((c) Daire O'Briain).
The humans who rummage around in these worlds are, well, human - "I'm right, always have been, to hell with that new evidence which suggest otherwise". In the meantime, we have to assume our facts and get on with it. To say that this is a "(religious) belief" stretches the meaning of the word past breaking point.
"However it is still not a proof."
ReplyDeletethe term 'proof' is not one owned by mathematics or logic - there are notions of proof in both the scientific and legal world that are distinct from the sense you refer to.
"So therefore to say that evolution is correct is itself a belief. A belief based on lots of evidence but a belief non the less. "
You can say the same for the belief that "1+1=2", it's based on a system of reasoning/deduction and understanding, but it's a belief nonetheless.
"The dogmatic reaction to Young's slits for instance demonstrates. The science theories can be wrong, but when evidence is demonstrated to dispel the theory. Science react as if it is an attack on religion."
Did it really? Were people put to death and tortured? Was the validity of the evidence presented denied? To be sure, there was a lot of debate about how to interpret the results, but it was, to my knowledge, quite reasoned (outside of places like the Third Reich, where people had suspicions of degenerate Jewish science).
On the other hand, the science historian Thomas Kuhn did, IIRC, put forth a thesis that scientists tend not to radically change their scientific paradigms (belief systems) many times in their lives, but rather stick to one eventually and defend it - harmonization comes about because a new generation of people come along and can evaluate the claims in more objective terms.
"However, until today I hadn't realised he was entirely stupid."
ReplyDeleteSo anyone that disagrees with you is stupid? isn't that the argument a four year old makes? Ad hominem attack at the outset is a concession of intellectual inferiority. He really shook you up didn't he?
Science is a belief system. So is evolution. Where is the proof that Science holds all the answers? No system can prove itself. Science does not understand the human mind, the origin and cure for cancer etc.etc. Where is your incontrovertible proof it ever will? (Send me a link to that article or study).A Scientific proof is demonstrable and repeatable. The apple accelerates to the ground at the same rate every time we drop it. We have proof of the existence of an acceleratng force, gravity. Evolution does not lend itself to such a methodology. So it is essentially unproven.
Excellent post.
ReplyDeleteBut I take a bit of umbrage with this:
Like any worthwhile religion, it treats non-believers as backward and uneducated.
Well, Mr Myers, not to put it too finely, that is because they are.
Surely if we want to educate people it is best to see why they don't believe and see if we can explain it better. Not just label them 'backward'. Sometimes people don't believe something because they cannot understand it, that is not always their fault, but the fault of the person trying to explain it.
Pieces like this help, but could do with out the name-calling. That's what *they* do...
As i say, great piece otherwise.
That's some epic trolling by mdunf. It has to be, otherwise *facepalm*.
ReplyDeleteThis is what happens when you give non-Biological Scientists an opportunity to discuss evolutionary topics. No legitimate person within the Natural Science community disputes evolution takes place and that its chief mechanism is natural selection. Semantic arguments belong perhaps in the History societies of once reputable universities to be debated by tweeners.
ReplyDeleteIndulgence of the ignorant who wish to oppose evolutionary theory in general should be avoided, nothing good can come of such sycophantic pandering.
Hello Robert. I happen to agree with a lot of Kevin Myers articles. I think he is an effective exposer of many uncomfortable truths and hypocrisies in our society. However, I must concede that you did a great job finding the flaws in his evolution article, an article I certainly didn't agree with. Congrats, Andrew
ReplyDeletehttp://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/kevin-myers/kevin-myers-myth-of-dawkins-as-an-intolerant-atheist-crusader-is-just-that-myth-2669926.html
ReplyDelete